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Broadsword

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Everything posted by Broadsword

  1. Further details on the banners... IMPORTANT UPDATE ON ADVERTISING SIGNAGE! Thank you for your enquiries regarding advertising banners at Odsal Stadium. In just days we have been inundated with offers and support which has been humbling and apologies in delay for not responding immediately but, with workload currently, we are a little overwhelmed! Therefore, if you could help with your support and for us to 'deliver' better service and response, we have put together hopefully a more efficient service - please read on! And thank you!!! Due to the ever increasing workload we are working in conjunction with Fly Signs, one of our trusted suppliers to make it simpler for all involved. Billy and Ian at Fly Signs will be in charge of production of the banners and will be willing to help with any queries. There is a mesh perimeter fence down both straights and the North Terrace that the banners will be attached to. The banners will be facing in towards the track and clearly visible from around the whole of this huge stadium. There are 40 available places on the North terrace [ Turns one and two ] for banners measuring 2400mm x 700mm each. These banners are a quality banner which is hemmed and eyeleted for additional strength. The cost for these is just £250 + vat each. Down Both straights the banners will be slightly larger at 3000mm x 900mm. There are 17 places on the back straight and 18 places on the home straight. Again these banners will be hemmed and eyeleted for strength. The cost for these larger banners is £300 + Vat. The banners will be in place at all Startrax promoted events for a period of 12 months from the first event. Banners may be taken up and down between events and specific positions can not be guaranteed other than area/size ordered. The prices quoted include the production cost of the banner but not artwork. Customers must supply print ready artwork or we can design your artwork for an additional £30 which will include a proof. Please contact Billy at FLY signs to discuss what you require and, when ordered, we will issue a VAT invoice. Pro forma invoices will be issued from Startrax and must be paid within 7 days or the space will be re-advertised. Customers may supply their own banners but they must be to the exact same sizes as above. There is no reduction in price for customer supplied banners. If you would like to discuss your requirements you can contact fly Signs on 01430 874075 or email Billy@flysigns.co.uk.
  2. From what it says on FB the cost for the banners is for 12 months , I assume it’s for ‘race meeting’ events and not for rugby?? For full details, prices etc contact Steve stevenrees01@btinternet.com
  3. Also for anyone interested....again contact Steve direct on above email. Is it worth having one. “Stoxnet - THE place to go for F1Stox information” 😂😂 Cheers Andy
  4. Think you need to comment on the Facebook page and Startrax will message you back....if you are on FB that is! I’m sure if you contacted Steve via email he could sort it for those who do not do FB. stevenrees01@btinternet.com Cheers Andy
  5. Startrax Stockcar Racing - 17th Jan 2021 Latest ! Sunday afternoon! Odsal Reflection after the first 14 days on site! Firstly sincerest thanks to FWJ,JJ, and Karl who have suffered weather wise the week from hell yet stoicly remained and refused to be beaten by the extreme arctic, snow and rain and battled on! FWS and Danny will in the coming days be back on site affixing and securing the final ropes. FWJ's team, despite everything thrown at them has got a rythm now and a process and extra resource with a second telehandler and Huggy Bear Graeme has been helping and speeding the job up cutting plate and Grandad Baldwin is doing the same today - everyone helping! This weekend Mr Guy Parker has been weighing in helping tightening ropes etc, a humbling team effort and Jackie and I fully respect and appreciate the help and makes us proud. It's all progressing ' on time ' - We are now on with the next phases, preparing the track for laying shale, equipment requirement, anyone who might help, we will be seeking a tracked dozer for a couple of weeks from 8th February to move the shale around and will help 'track it in ' - please message me and Mr Massey is assisting in ensuring our ex Coventry Grader is serviced and 'raring to go'. We have completed the first draft of our project plan for the stadium as we move into February [ after which we will advise and welcome volunteers as Covid 19 circumstances permit ]. All entities, RFL, Bulls and ourselves are together to embrace and push forward with various people already in and out. Another 'wish' item for help, we want to jet out all drains and sumps at the end of the month professionally before we lay the track, anyone in that sector able to help, gratefully received, again pm me. Against all odds weather wise and 'learning' as you go, plans are fantastic but along the way there are problems arise that have to be solved and the progress in just 14 days is absolutely immense and I really do look forward to the end of the month when visually the dream gets a huge step nearer and the 'ring of steel' visually brings Odsal a step closer. The passion has always been there from me/us at the top to make this dream happen but without the phenominal support from within our own sports, in all honesty, would have probably be impossible. The aim is to build a venue that will be a legacy for the sport as we won't be around forever, but it's built and running as my own legacy. By coming together 'we' made this happen and, if there is one plea from me, please keep up with the enthusiasm and moral support. There is no doubt the year ahead will be challenging as a result of the financial consequences of the pandemic and behind the scenes it has been my thought process to ensure we can 'manage' it for the long term what may arise. Reality, restricted crowds are a major issue at a facility like Odsal to maintain viability wise, we must protect it - and any support obviously helps. We are delighted at the uptake in 140 Patrons Vip memberships in just the last 5 days and urge you again to take a look, everyone one of these is a brick in the Odsal wall! Thank you - and during next week we will continue to update you and visually with progress photos, back straight now completely plated and now going around turns two and into 1! Thank you to the close team working on site and all in getting us this far, please don't take your foot of the enthusiasm pedal as, like Santa's reindeer, also this is powered and fueled by goodwill to ensure we get over the finishing line and 'ready to go'
  6. Yes It is 6.30 start, IE 6.30 PM start for the racing. Steve had re-jigged an old promo programme front. I can only assume the 7.30pm on the promo is the time Steve is expecting the Lund Transporter to arrive🙄😆
  7. I will put this on a separate topic - update on Belle Vue from Steve / Startrax - doesn`t look good but you never know.... From the Startrax FB page. Startrax Stockcar Racing · Curtain Closes on Kirkmanshule Lane - Motorsport has submitted a substantive seven figure offer - but unlikely to be enough! Behind the scenes and keeping you 'all' up to date, our team has continued to fight on to Save Belle Vue. Michael Burnage has been a driving force on the technical side, Simon Walmlsey on the Greyhound side and Friends of Belle Vue and of course myself. Ironically watching the soap Coronation Street and it's current storyline re development and 'dodgy planning' has remarkable similarities! We are now almost 3 years along the road since we first got wind of 'plans' for Belle Vue for housing and Friends of Belle Vue was formed to protect it's legacy from development and an 'Asset of Community Value' - a legal instrument was taken out on it, which in simple terms, if it was to be sold, we had a right of offer.. When the planning rather suspiciously was put in December 18th 2018 - a deliberate tactic to stymie the process and timing as it means we cannot do much with Christmas and New Year but the meter is running, we quickly got into action and, on my side my first port of call was Michael who has considerable experience in this area [ and whom I put Crispen onto in the latest 'battle' to save St Day. As a trio, myself, Michael and Simon spent days, weeks, hours in the campaign which, at least delayed the application being scheduled for March 2019 and, a great victory until December 2019. This entailed considerable detailed work, certainly increased cost [ and delay ] for the developer, we had also to contend with viscious attacks from animal right's people which the Greyhound authorities seem to have and frustrating lack of ability to resolve, left alone in the battle. Come the planning committee meeting, whilst resigned to the likely decision to this day it does not sit well that many of the right and proper challenges we submitted could just be weighted against other items such as social housing requirements. Frustrating - we also believe that before pre planning this had probably been 'green lighted' to succeed but something we cannot state as fact. When the decision was announced as passed [ subject to legal clarifications required from the developer which took some several months to resolve ] we went to plans B & C. What was unhelpful was that in November 2019 the Assets of the GRA were bought by Arena Leisure [ARC ] as the GRA itself may not have survived if this deal had not been done and on the cards behind the scenes for several months. Whilst we thought the ARC involvement may have been helpful, Simon and myself tried on many occasions to 'sit down' with them and explore the work we had done and where it may go but, consistently we were rebuffed and left in the dark as were the loyal Greyhound trainers and staff, a most distressing situation leaving everyone in uncertainty including us as to jobs and continuation and, how long. Then came the Covid 19 and eventually ARC moved racing assets out of BV to Perry Barr and elsewhere citing that it could not survive without a crowd. Understandable, however the lack of honesty and clarity was disappointing Simon and I tried to speak to their Greyhound division management and Rachel Corden who was quite cold,corporate and imparted absolutely no clarity and what I would say now obfuscation. I cannot either condemns her, the whole industry was/is in turmoil and must respect her right to confidentiality in what was then a very delciate situation - that I do understand, it is the lack of liason to try and jointly find a way forward that was unhelpful. Michael on our behalf looked at a legal challenge against the planning that could cost £100,000 plus and very difficult to win but some £5000 was invested from support to get the advice whereupon after discussion with the Council, we abandoned that route as they were, as you expect going to robustly defend the decision and all their costs would then come back to us if we failed. Sadly little people have very little chance of beating the system. So we deployed our final 'missile' and delaying tactic in invoking the Asset of Community Value allowing us until 11th January 2021 to submit a bid. Michael and team have worked tirelessly to some big names [ which I won't disclose for confidentiality reasons ] as the focus for BV to survive with motorsports had to see a 52 a week Greyhound operator in situ. With the general economic situation, they fell by the wayside 'one by one' very disappointingly and what is frustrating Belle Vue was and with a vision and investment beyond the pandemic, the potential to be the 'top greyhound venue for crowds' in the UK. The late John Gilburn who we started with as General Manager, restored that viability to Kirky Lane. Therefore whilst a will from motorsport to support it, sadly within the sport of greyhound racing, despite huge effort, eventually the cupboard was bare! Therefore, earlier this week Startrax Oval Motorsport Ltd made a formal substantive seven figure offer to purchase the freehold under the ACV 'on the basis' that the offer was based in ongoing viability for it remain as a stadium and for community use. We fully expect this will be rejected as it does not - and cannot match - the offer on the table for redevelopment, at that price it simply could not survive as a stadium and be invested in, the stadium would be bankrupt with no realistic return on investment prospect other than on the price we have offered. But money talks. In coming weeks we fully expect the offer to be declined and that will then be the end of the road and we expect a demolition order to be submitted in the coming months, if on the less than 1% chance it is accepted, happy to visit my bank to arrange the necessary finance - it could have a future ! But, that will not happen. Documentation we have dug out as recent as late December re ARC's ongoing involvement with BV gives little to add further clarity and effectively if they won't talk as last [ current ? ] leaseholder, there isn't much more we can do. As Startrax we have pushed every button, Simon for the love and passion of Greyhounds and visionary as to the possibilities, he has input everything, if only for the loyal trainers at Belle Vue and these are sad times and the economic situation has not helped but we feel somewhat embittered that we could not achieve a coming together with the Greyhound industry to 'Save' this iconic venue. Close on 100 years of greyhound racing - the first in the UK in the 1920's purpose built, it's historic and cultural last remaining legacy of the illustrious days of 'Belle Vue; in all it's glory seems destined to be another 'Lego land Estate of little character' and Manchester loses significant heritage. I am deeply saddened writing this but comforted that millions have enjoyed Belle Vue since the 1920;s and against all odds gained permission for motorsport to return to Manchester after over a decades absence where it also provided a landing zone for the Aces until it's new stadium was built by ratepayers of Manchester as, had Kirky Lane not stepped in the Aces too would be history, none of that considered as appropriate by the City Council. That sadly is modern life. We have our memories and pride in celebrating against those odds, 21 great years of Oval racing achieved in 2019 and it ended that season as planned where, without a fight it may have closed mid year. We met some great people and worked with great people, the loyal long serving staff at the stadium, the co-operation of the Greyhound trainers working together and last, but not least, Belle Vue could never have happened without the general support of 'salt of the earth' people our proud Gorton neighbours, THANK YOU TO THEM! Savour the memories, we shall and, at least we have Odsal about to be re born but that cannot replace this old lady fully. In the unlikelihood of my offer being accepted I shall advice you and will be coming around with the collection bucket! To the people of Manchester who have supported the stadium, visitors close and afar and race teams and staff, thank you and now, the fat lady is warming up and time for us to move on positively BUT we shall be keeping a watching brief!
  8. The following contains graphic images likely to bring on dizzy spells, faintness and possible heart palpitations to certain Stoxnet members - you have been warned ** ** mainly Giant and Riggerman but others also....
  9. Startrax Stockcar Racing - 09/01/2020 · The weekend! The first 5 full days of work at Odsal - or six after today are complete and in all probability could not have picked a worse week weather and temperature wise. Thanks to Miles, our tractor contractor, we had to gritters in last Sunday for delivery of major equipment due to snow and ice - which eased during the week, but very cold! Thursday pm and Friday saw the snow set in - Miles had to be invited back to grit so they could get around! A load of concrete scheduled yesterday had to be turned around due to weather and due in today so the first phase may be finished! FWJ and team are spending today I imagine 'thawing out' - For Frank, Karl, JJ and FWS and Danny, think the latter part of this week has been beyond the call of duty in working in extremities of cold and snow, testiment to their age and stamina lol - However, week one has gone as well as could be anticipated, I will not use any optimistic words as when were flying with boring for fence posts we in record time we hit a huge concrete slab that had to be re planned so no room for complacency. Today Scott and Newtons will hopefully finish off their part of the project ready to start another job Monday, our team returns tomorrow as we start putting in place the 3 artic loads of plate required, and cutting etc to fix. Around 50% of the backing ropes are now 'in situ' which is an excellent start courtesy of the management of FWS and Danny, refurbished and environmentally friendly, re used from Belle Vue as is the Pit gate, now in situ. A big well done to the whole team at the end of week 1. I am back on site Monday and we will also being taking professional photographs to give a much better idea of the South Stand and facilities to open these up for reservation around Tuesday onwards, we will of course, continue updates as appropriate. If all goes according to plan this month, we hope weather permitting to start actually laying the shale track early February giving us two months to lay/ work around weather and in this area, we have the best in the business in Andy Meredith's skillset and team. Have a good weekend. We have been inundated with messages and e-mails all week which I am trying to respond to however, it may take two or three days but you will get a response, your not being ignored, it's just been a heavy week, hence delaying getting on with the Patrons Club until next week - Simply time and priorities
  10. Startrax Stockcar Racing - Friday 8/01/2020 PROGRESS AFTER 4 DAYS Not for the feint hearted at a Siberian Odsal, the team in are in good spirits with a 'real buzz' about the place. Scott Newton of lead contractors NEWTON construction are extremely professional and work orientated and we are confident that the main infrastructure ring of posts will be completed this weekend, a major part of the build, the skeleton if you like. We have trust in the integrity having taken advice from people within the sport as well as our contractor, Pete Falding, FWJ and FWS and 'man for every job' Graeme Robson and, if anything, we would like to believe we have over engineered it. It is anticipated the the last concrete infilling will complete Saturday. Alongside the infrastructure, FWJ, Karl, JJ along with Danny and Frank have already in situ around a third of the backing ropes and the Pit gate and players gate, very substantial are also in situ. Jack France has been in and out and some prep work already track wise has starting in digging out and removing concrete etc which will continue later in the month ready to start laying the track weather permitting, February. Next week attaching the plate will commence and the aim is for the actual fence construction to be completed within the next three weeks. We had a visit yesterday from the City building inspector / HSE for an update on the construction and he was extremely helpful with advice on other matters further down the line in terms of stadium requirements. A polite BUT firm request, Odsal is currently a construction site in HSE terms and we cannot allow people to sneak in and take photos etc, much as we understand the enthusiasm, that could 'stop' the job. We will update you as we can with progress - we are in a lockdown and we must all follow government advice and only designated workers may be on site at any time or to do with the project. The Bulls are also fully committed and planning alongside us and there is real energy and a will to work together. Hard working Tracey from the Bulls is working long hours and we are pooling our knowledge and requirements into 'action' points of work in the stadium to be done so, as soon as restrictions ease, we can welcome people in to help who all share the passion to #MAKE ODSAL HAPPEN - The RFL are also engaged planning their work. The license is signed and sealed - we are all now working to make the dream real and get Odsal ready for opening 'on time' as scheduled or as/when Government advice permits, whichever may be sooner - and that, we cannot control, but we believe we will be ready. As we approach the end of week one, excellent progress. WIth groundworks, until you actually dig, you do not know the problems, a major one arose with an underground concrete slab however sharing the problem and solutions, that has been overcome. Two of 3 complex articulated delivery units needed to deliver the steel .plate - Thanks to Carberry Haulage for their support and first class service as friends of the sport We will keep you updated
  11. Reply to Steves request on Landscaping request by Paul Flowers - picture originally from the Speedway Stadium, Past and Present FB page. Quite interesting - never seen this picture before but gives some indication of how the place was constructed and the sides filled with spoil / waste etc. It was originally and old stone quarry.
  12. Startrax Stockcar Racing. ODSAL - Sponsorship help - Appreciated! As we move into February, we will be starting on the main stadium and whilst we are grateful for the volunteer 'army' - we are looking for help in the first 3 areas which would like to crack on with next month. 1. Landscaping - All the grass verges and shrubbery etc - quite an area, for speed, would benefit proper equipment if anyone with that skill set can help out - Please message me/e-mail me text me! 2. Anyone in the paint business - looking for Black and red exterior paint and primer for the barriers and ancilliaries in the main stadium after they have been stress tested Also White paint for the fence - emulsion, decent quanity, has to be done every meeting to keep it smart! 3. Fabrication - The External emergency gates require removing, re pannelling and all hinges checking and robust, checked over to open freely. These are the first three and working together with the Bulls and RFL to get as much done as possible to get the old girl back with a twinkle in her eye! POSTED today Friday 8/1/2020
  13. This one gives a slightly better point of view (angle) - pic care of John Hanslip off FB
  14. Update on some of the works. Steve Watkinson (via FB) works nearby and is a Bulls fan and had a peek in and supplied some pictures of the works being done. Interesting one showing just how wide the bends still are at the hospitality suite end once the promotional tarpaulin/boarding is removed.
  15. Also today Update! Day one - huge progress and hard work in 2 degree temperature, 50% of holes done, some posts now in - great progress. Further discussions with RFL and we hopefully meet Thursday for a 'wrap' and who does what in other areas to #makeodsalhappen - The RFL who could not be more helpful, Bradford Bulls and ourselves truly are 'as one' to make this a success - None of us can control the uncontrollable re Pandemic BUT we are all committed that 'we will be ready when the country is ready!' We can do more
  16. From today.... ODSAL 'Blog' Taking a 'breather' after an exhausting Christmas / New Year period, hundreds of e-mails/messages and calls - all or mostly dealt with, bumps that occur along the road as a fact of life, phase one of work has started at 7. am this morning and in touch with the contractor, Graeme and Frank, touch wood and early thus far but progressing well. Odsal is CLOSED to public access, HSE etc we have to be left alone to get on with it and regrettably during this period it is effectively 'workers only' so please, do not try to have a peek, give us time and be patient- Later this month as and when there is something to see and, progress, we will of course update you but that will not be immediate, however,, the first 5 hours of the project 'progressing' and the right people are 'on site' and from that perspective of the cost element we are truly committed now with #makeodsalhappen. This is the first opportunity to gain 5 minutes to give an update! Job lists are laid out on my desk that extend to many foolscap pages but the focus is to go through a process and phase by phase. Jackie and I truly went through a week of sleepless night's prior to Christmas in honesty as to whether we should 'postpone' Odsal until a date when the country may return to some form of normality as Boris advised us of the deepening situation with Covid 19. Postponing the project we concluded as a short term 'get out of jail card' by pushing it down the line was of benefit but attached to that there would always be the risk 'it won't happen' for a myriad of circumstances. Availability of contractors, labour, plate etc - one example, after getting several quotes for steel plate, back in July the best quote we got was 19k - a few weeks ago start dates became more real, due to the pandemic and affect on supply, that quote had soared to 31k and that price, not guaranteed until on site as there may be fluctuation. Thanks to Graeme Robson and his good offices, resolved and ready to be delivered to site. THE JOB IS NOW REAL -This morning has been no stop calls and keeping abreast, this has to be team work with the Bulls in delivering an Odsal we can all be proud of. Whilst writing this I paused to chat with Adam Fogarty, Bulls shareholder, also 'on site' about 'next steps. There has to be patience and understanding, financially it is a huge risk [ for us ], being frank, retirement looks an even better proposition than it did a month ago !- Be under no illusion, the task ahead over 12/13 weeks is HUGE, as I stated when on site last week, I feel like a conductor of an orchestra with responsibility for making sure the instruments are in the right place but alas, I am not a musician, my skillset is neither laying tracks or installing fences, but after many years understand the concept. The delivery, we pay for and have to rely on those capable. We are satisfied we have the right team, and grateful, around us for those who have the skillset to deliver and are equally passionate about Odsal, it is not just about money, it is about trusted people, we should be proud of people in our sport for rallying. With regards 'volunteer' help - thank you, as to when we have to be fluid, February is the plan after the main work is complete, however we also have to roll with what the coming days and weeks deliver in terms of further restrictions that may be imposed to keep us all safe, we have to work with them. Our view, we will return to normality, we just don't now a date yet. Postponing we felt may totally derail the project, perhaps permanantely as the moment passes. The personal risk and investment is huge - that's for us, we might later in the year be asking for food parcels lol - The Bradford Bulls are no different in undertaking huge risk. The pandemic is a game changer and when I started this journey November 2019, none of this was forseeable and perhaps we may not have been so keen, but those are life issues that has to be dealt with in a calculated way, We are focused on delivery and our aim is that Odsal is ready to open for April, if delayed, that will be beyond our control and far too early to contemplate, the country is working towards Easter being a turning point, but our aim now is to be ready when the country is ready. In the interim all we can ask is for your continued support because as a country we will walk back into the sunlight but in the interim your support in any and every way is the very things that has set aside our mental state to push it back. I read elsewhere 'speculation' as to tiering and the Pandemic 'will we,won't we 'free to roam' in April, 'what tier will Bradford be in come April, itching teeth stuff, it's 4th January! Boris does not know! We bought tickets for Lytham Festival in July back at end of November - life is about uncertainties,will I be alive in April [ God willing ] The certainty in life is as we speak 'It will open' and if we are prevented from going on 3rd April, we will ALL be able to go eventually and tickets are valid for when it opens if delayed or refundable [ or send 'em me back as some are on e-bay presently at higher than face value so will join the black market [lol] ] - might be better than selling them genuinely! Thank you Steve & Jackie
  17. Right Everyone, after exhausting all will to live on the Odsal topic I have thought the easiest way is just to have a `copy and paste` for those not doing FB for any updates from Steve, Jackie and Ian. Can I please ask this is just for updates and information etc that can be got for those who do not / do not choose to do FB. Please can I ask for it not to turn into a huge discussion thread (blimey Andy talk about frying pan calling the pot black!!) but just for updates etc. I have no involvement with Startrax but watch their site and as most know I am a huge fan of Shale racing so have always done the Startrax F1 meetings (probably missed 10 in the last 20 years). If anyone else wants to copy anything else across please feel free, I`m just kicking off the topic , not taking ownership. But please keep it discussion / squabbling free please (thought I`d never say that !) Cheers Andy
  18. Perhaps the people who put all the time, effort, prizes, funds, organising funds, promotional effort, let alone the drivers and teams etc, should be who decides the outcome of the series rather than the fella who has said the one off race idea was poor. Rock on Rodders and keep kicking em while they are down.
  19. If it was planned to be run as a one off race, grid positions decided on points, that’s how it should be run...the drivers went into the last round knowing that, changing it afterwards just isn’t right. Run it as the ‘ Rainbow Roof’ one off race at the first Kings Lynn or Startrax meeting next year. I mean if we had run the season as normal this year and then had a lock down before the WF do we then award it to whoever won the toss of the coin at the Semi Final? By all accounts it’s unfair and not sporting to remove backmarkers but it’s absolutely fine to change a race series and award it to the points winner at the last but one race. If it does go ahead next year I just hope Dave That you are available and not on duty...if you are is the Wash deep enough to park up a submarine?? - I can pick you up at the River Humber and drive you down if not...😄 Good Luck with whatever the outcome. Andy
  20. Probably agree and before anyone fires back I’ll say as I’ve said before, ‘er indoors’ works for the health service and was on the Covid recovery wards at the height last April/May. Problem is just how the hell do you do this without putting businesses, essentially at best on a rocky footing, at worse out of business - unless you just keep borrowing huge amounts to add onto the already huge national debt. Unfortunately that is also the price we are going to have to pay.
  21. I thought there was a new BSCDA ruling that you had to attend at least one meeting a year to count as being a fan Ozzy...could be mistaken mind🙄😂
  22. It’s been gone into lots of time but dust is a big problem with the surrounding neighbours on the industrial estate. Having said that this often happens - it’s worth watching all but at 1 min 12 seconds in, after the water cart comes out.
  23. If it can be done on parchment with a fountain pen and in big style pensioner style writing as well...
  24. Due to having Yorkshire Tinterweb up here and it being a good 15 years plus out of date, I googled Skegness Stock Cars and this picture came up so had to give it a try.........still can`t find any reference to it being tar on the tinterweb we use up here. I think I deserve a refund😆
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